Im going too

I love sleep, because you can forget it "All" when you sleep.

For that instant, you dont know who you are, where you will go, or who will you see.. It is pure, always real. Even if its just in your head


Peace


Silver Monkey

Here is an article I came upon this morning that highlights why we should be learning to become sharp barters and horse traders. Why ? I’ll tell you why.

With inflation eating away at the dollar, we all need to continually at least make up for its continual losses to our purchasing power. That is, if we want to continue to have any discretionary money in the future. Because this discretionary money is fast disappearing. And all that will be left is enough to merely subsist upon until the next round of inflation pulls you under. You can see the writing on the wall, can’t you ?


MISERY SPREAD WIDELY, THE DESTRUCTION OF THE MIDDLE CLASS!
By Ty Andros


http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/ed...2007/0524.html


I strongly believe that only those who are sharp deal makers will survive financially through the next few years. I’m talking about us working Joes and Janes. You can slice and dice it any way you want, the dollar buys less each year and wage increases aren’t nearly keeping up with this.

The time is right now to begin to act; not after you don’t have any discretionary money with which to make deals. After all, who can make deals when they don’t have enough money to first feed themselves and pay the ongoing bills ? And that’s where we are headed.

I have read that the average American has about $50 in cash outside the bank. That means that some have much more but many also have literally zilch in their hands. If a crisis happens, that money in the bank may become unavailable. Nice way to say that you have just been royally screwed ! So I feel that having cash in hand for deal making as well as security is of utmost importance. Hey, I’m not crazy about paper dollars but they are the only game in town and if we want to play we have to use them. It is the way that we use them to our benefit that makes all the difference. Otherwise we are just sitting ducks.

If you have gold and silver great. But we all must be able to pass through time until we may reap the benefits of their increase in purchasing power. It could be weeks or years; nobody knows for sure. What I offer in this thread is that you can take control of your money rather than let it continue to slowly strangle you. And hopefully you will not have to sell out your precious metals too soon.

Bartering and horse trading provides a form of freedom from future debauchment of our currency. As we pass through time we are buying and selling in that same time period. The profits should also be of a same purchasing power. Forget about what the dollar will be worth in a year; this is profit that can be used again right away to make more profit and amass a fortune. What you do with it is up to you. I prefer to plow it back in and work for me.

People work for money, people work with money and money works for people.

Most people work for money. And that is almost all people.

There are very few who have learned the skills to work with money even though it is so simple.

And even those who have money working for them are constrained by their investments. They often have risks that they have not properly taken into account. Bond and stock holders. Real estate investors. And others who have their money in someone else’s hands.

Since there are so few who have learned to work with money, the field is wide open. Many times I have laughed at the deals I made; they were so easy. And I’m only a self taught Joe lunchbucket blue collar worker. If I can do it, you who read this can do it. Did you think it took a high I.Q. to buy items and sell them for more ? Any room temperature moron can do it and I am living proof. So like Peter Finch said in the movie Network, “Get up and go to the window, open the window and yell I’m mad as Hell and I’m not going to take it any more.”

Well, you don’t have to actually make an ass of yourselves yelling out the window but you should be darn angry with what has been happening to our dollar. And the only solution I know other that living in the woods, eating grubs and berries has been to beat the system at their own game.

I am writing this especially now because I see a need to act before discretionary money vanishes. If you allow this to happen to you, the next thing may be that you have to sell your precious metals. Sometimes I think that is what the ones pulling the strings are hoping for. Everybody broke and in debt and therefore subservient to their demands. See how freedom can be lost here ?

A side benefit is that I expect that there will be items selling at fire sale prices. This I expect because many people will be falling further and further behind in their expenses after they have no discretionary money left. We also must be aware that at the same time, the prices we can sell the items we bought will not demand as much money. This is a downside market and this is why I have said to sell as soon as possible. You can make money on the downside but unlike a rising market, time here is not your friend. Each time period has bargains BUT they are only bargains if you sell them in that same time period. This is the shabby outcome of fiat currency.

Silver Monkey’s solution to bettering his financial situation was yet another example of wise deal making. There are many ways and each of us has to try on their own and see if it fits. Like trying on a coat, it comes in many sizes and styles. You have to use your imagination to find the one that best “suits” you.

Best wishes,

Agnut

"Imagination is more important than knowledge, for knowledge is limited while imagination embraces the entire world." (Albert Einstein)

"We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality."
Ayn Rand

Most i had was around $2500 Cash, I just can't seem to hold onto my Cash...Im down to around $400 now, i just keep buying "Real Assets" (Gold/Silver, Mountain bikes(Have 8 now), DVD's(6 for $20 at the pawn exchange and i have around 200+)


I was thinking about it the other night and i came up with some #numbers i will shoot for, as far as cash is concerned in the next 6 months..


100 x 20's = 2k
100 x 10's = 1k
100 x 5's = $500
500 x 1's = $500


Total of $4,000

Thats about what i am comfortable holding. And what i will shoot for over next 6 months.

After i recieve this last 1 OZ $50 Gold Eagle i bought i feel i am "Good" on the PM front...


catch you later



Monkey.

P.S..

It is amazing that someone would purchase something for $300-$400, less then 3 years ago, use it maybe 10 times, and then sell it to YOU for $40-$100(Mountain Bikes). This is an area i am getting into. I have made some mistakes(Paying around $100 for a bike worth......$100) But also getting a few bikes woth $100 for $40..

It is a learning experiance and mistakes are made..

I feel it is better to just jump in and make a few mistakes, then sit on the sidelines, and never get in the game.


Like NIKE always says...JUST DO IT.. If you make a mistake, you will learn from that mistake.


My next purchase is going to be an Electric Guitar & Amp...

If i pay to much and make a bad trade, i still have something i will enjoy!!

If i make a great trade, i may be able to sell it for more then i paid/ Or roll it over into even a better trade..

Even though i "paid" $70 for that mountain bike, does not mean i have to sell it for $70..Someone may come along and TRADE me a $300 electric guitar for it..

Silver Monkey-

I had the same problem you have. If I had any cash on hand, it was spent. I just wasn't smart enough to buy only pm's.... I bought anything. I finally came up with a simple solution. I go to the local banks and "buy" $100-300 in half dollars. After I search through them I put the rolls into a safe deposit box. Way I have it figured is these rolls are not convenient for me to haul around until I buy anything, but if I was in a desperate need for cash it was there. I've gone from no cash on hand to almost $1000 in the last 3 months, and I have added to my silver stash (very slowly) for wwwaaayyyyyy under spot.

Just an idea for you to kick around.

RH

Hi All,
I'm new to PM's Ive been looking into it lately cause i thought it would be a good idea, Ive been a lurker here for a lil bit and just registered cause you all seem very knowledgeable and nice community.

All i can say is WOW this thread is so chalk full of information i have to sit back and try to absorb it all thank you all so much for sharing your experiences for Noobs from 8-5 jobs like myself can get the confidence to take life by the horns and Ride it like you stole it :bull-emoticon:

Interesting thing Rooster :proud:

Most every day on the way home from work i stop in and pay a visit to the vending machine in the bus station..I put a $5 or $10 spot in and buy a soda/water/snack for $1-$3, This machine gives Susan B's and the new washington dollars back as change..I have a nice "Hoard" of them now..

Even Susan B's and washington $'s i think have more value then the paper $'s i put in(Copper/Zinc ect..ect..) It is just a little "Hobby" i use to pass/waste time on the way home

How much does it cost for a safe deposit box? Do you feel safe using one?

I have a nice stash that keeps getting bigger every week or 2, and security has been on my mind lately..

Safe deposit box, for me has been ruled out.

Catch ya later :D

Silver Monkey

Peace!!

About finding 92.5 sterling in the local thrift/Garage/estate sales....


I have not had "ANY" luck..

Its all plated junk.


I did find a sweet cordless phone though Its a older phone, but was NEW in the box(I had to cut open the battery out of plastic and charge the phone up) and has a cool 6" LCD screen and can store like 1,000's of numbers and shit. The price tag said $35, i walked up to managers office in the thrift store and said.." Is the price negotiable on things in the store"..

He said.. "Sure whats that you got there"

I said.. "A sweet ass phone that i wont pay more then $15 for"

He said.. "Tell Jill at checkout Bill said to charge $15 for it"

This thing sold for around $300 in late 1999.

Works great, looks really nice, and cost me $15.

Peace


Silver Monkey

The little wheels in my head where spinning when i went into a few thrift stores recently...

The average person has "NO" idea that the price of copper has gone fro .90 a pound to $3.40 a pound in the last few years. In the corner was a bin full of 50' to 100' extension cords that must have like 5+ pounds of copper in them..

Price?

.99c each.

Just an idea spinning in my head, and i would need to think it through.

Last post for the night

MS69 Gold 1 ounce eagles NGC graded
1988
1989
1990
1991
1992
1993
1994
1995
1996
1997
1998
1999

I think with the low population of these coins "All around 1,000 or under graded"

You can still pick them up for spot or maybe less then 3% over.

I have picked up 3

1993
1990
1998

all for less then $10 over spot.


Anyone looking to put together a Ms69 set will need these coins, and will pay a premium for them.

Just a suggestion!

good luck


Silver monkey.

I let a 1992 Ms69 slip away from me(Ebay)for a measly $10 more then my best bid. (NGC population 448 graded ms69 ms70)

Good night :character

The famed quintuple post! :D

Ahaahaha, I love it. I wish we had more thrift stores around here. There's one about 10 minutes down the road but it has a fairly limited selection.:bear_sad: I need to start making it a habit to stop in the local ones in other towns I visit or pass through... lots of great stuff to be had. A cousin of mine was actually over at my house this evening and wearing a sharp red sweatshirt, which looked brand new. He said it was $6 at the thrift store. :bear_cool:

I scour the thrift stores in my area for silver and gold but don't find a lot. Virtually no sterling silver (only plated) and the gold jewelry tends to be priced higher than spot. I was lucky a few weeks ago, however, when the thrift store chain had a 50% off all merchandise day. I visited 3 in the area and purchased almost all of the 10K and 14K jewelry they had. Picked up the equivalent of about 1oz of .999 (after the calculations) for about $250.

I've tried yard sales but haven't had any luck when it comes to silver or gold.

The problem with copper and American eagles................

Copper: Who ya gonna sell it to ? The scrap yard ? You won't get "market price". It's just another mass scrap market item to them. They offer you a price only a percentage of market value, take it or leave it.

Eagles: Grade rarity of any modern coinage (especially bullion) is a marketing scam, no matter how you stack it. Just consider this....... For every MS-XX that comes through PCGS or NGC, there are millions more out there just sitting in mint boxes, rolls, or flips that are POTENTIAL MS-XX grades just waiting to happen. The grade doesn't change the fact that all you have is a bullion coin, in the plastic or out.

If you check out www.coinflation.com, it gives the values of the different coins based on their metal content.

Thanks a bunch. Mark

Hi DBcooper. Kinda hard to lose too much with only $1300 invested. Two sets of quality tires isn’t cheap these days. The old motor home I bought for $150 a while back had over $1000 in new tires. That is what cinched the deal for me. Big ‘ol Michelin donuts.

What kind of mileage are you getting with this Highway Patrol car ? And how many miles per year do you expect to drive it per year ? I have heard they are a hoot to drive. You know, it may also be useful for towing a boat or trailer. That is, with a good trailer hitch. I’m always looking at the multi uses a vehicle may offer. A car that can tow a trailer has the advantage in some states of being a lot lower in registration fees than a truck.

With what I see coming, a high MPG gas or diesel car or truck will be a good backup. Right now the straits of Hormuz has a hurricane approaching that could prove to be devastating to oil shipments. Just a heads up that any disruption of the oil delivery system or the refinery complex will send fuel prices upward.

Dbcooper, I am not being critical of your car purchase but only want to point out the long term picture. I did the same thing a while back and bought a couple of 1987 Jaguar XJ6 cars. They were dirt cheap at the time but I am now looking down the road a couple of years and feel that as we move from form (and they have a beautiful form, kinda sexy) to function (not attractive but valuable in their economy), they will not serve my needs then. So I am getting them ready to sell ASAP. I don’t mean TO a sap; I mean As Soon As Possible to someone who lives in today and has no interest in studying what the future may hold. It is but one of the advantages of studying history and reading voraciously on the internet. How can anyone plan for the future if they don’t know where they came from or even stand in the present ? The public is oblivious and although I don’t take any delight in this, it is a great advantage to be forward thinking.

One thing instilled in me is to always be considering how any purchase will fare in the future. I bought those Jaguars because I have owned several in the past and restored four. I also was a mechanic at a Jaguar dealership many years ago. They are not a car I would recommend to others They don’t get great mileage and they are highly complicated as well as expensive to maintain. That is why they are dirt cheap. One I bought for $450 and it runs great. Might be most suitable for a demolition derby though. Years ago I wanted to find a rusty old Rolls Royce and make it look straight and well, there were two ways to go. I could lower it, put dingle balls in the windows, reverse chrome mag wheels, paint “Love Machine” on a side window and park it around the La Jolla business district. That’s where everybody seems to show off their wealth. I love to prick bubbles (or is it the other way around ?). I have a warped sense of humor and it’s a good thing I don’t do everything I dream up. The other option would be to put this old rust bucket Rolls in a demolition derby. I’m sure lots of folks would pay to see a symbol of power and wealth get the crap knocked out of it. I got a bit of redneck in me too.

I already bought a Datsun diesel pickup truck that gets 40 MPG to replace the Jaguars. The Datsun won’t attract attention and that is another plus in the future as I see it. Time to get low key and practical.

You may want to keep your car and that is fine if it suits your needs but I still recommend a high MPG backup vehicle. With the Datsun diesel and three VW diesel Rabbits I feel better positioned for the future.

My son and I plan to tweak one of the VW diesels to see how high MPG we can get out of it. There are a lot of gear ratios available and that is my specialty.

Best wishes,

Agnut

P.S. I blew out my elbow a couple of weeks ago and have what is called Popeye elbow, a type of bursitis. No warning; I don’t know what did it. It sticks out like I have a ping pong ball in there. I can still work but have to be careful. Just a reminder for you all to take care of your health and be careful out there. It has been said that health is the wealth of wealth and I am all too painfully aware.

SilverMonkey- I didn't mean safe deposit box, I meant to say safe. I wouldn't leave anything in a bank safe deposit box becuase I would never consider it "safe"

RH

We had our yearly community garage sale last Saturday. It ran from 8 AM to 1 PM. As I said in another post, it gave me a lot to think about.

First of all, my son and I had been separating and storing boxes of items in the garage. At 7 AM we started to set up. Some early birds showed up and one bought an antique fishing reel for $100 It was probably worth more. I couldn’t get a price fix on it anywhere on the internet. When I think about it, I had gotten it for free and now had $100 in my pocket.

If I had an item and even suspected that it may be worth far more than I sold it for, I still have a profit. If I had found out its true value and demanded that price, I would probably still have that item and no cash. So why am I still quibbling when I have a $100 profit from a free item ? Well, partly because I think it may have been worth far more. I had asked $120 and settled at $100. If I had asked $100 originally, the buyer may well have offered no more than $80. So I cushion the first price and let the buyer haggle down to what I really want to sell the item for. And if he doesn’t haggle as so often is the case, I can get an extra $20.

So making less profit from a sale allows me to have cash in hand to find the next good deal. Turnover of items is so important, especially in a down turning market.

The rest of the day, I sold several videotapes for a dollar each. They were the good ones, spares from my personal collection that I had replaced with DVDs. The week before my son and I had gotten 24 used videotapes for 25 cents each. We only sold 4 for a dollar each but at least got 2/3 back of our investment and still had 20 videotapes for the next sale.

As an aside, I find it funny that people will pay $20 for a new DVD movie but are reluctant to pay $1 for a used videotape movie. Especially when it can be resold after viewing. And they will pay $3 or more to rent a movie that they have to return. I even had a couple of buyers tell me that they had bought some videotape movies for 25 cents earlier. All this dealing helped me understand better what the market would bear. I already knew my video prices were high at $1 but I did sell quite a few. If I had asked 25 cents each I may have only sold a few more. And no profit.

The only glassware selling was Pyrex cooking ware. My son had about 30 X-Box games for $10 each and only sold one to a neighbor kid. We had to count out the coins on a table. The kid said that he had searched in the couches at home for the last few coins. Probably on dresser tops and purses too. These X-Box games will sell better and for more on Ebay.

A trend seemed to have established where garage sale shoppers are looking for very specific items. And many items that were $10 new are not selling for a quarter. A neighbor said that she didn’t sell even one item.

I had a 28’ Werner ladder out front that cost over $300 new. I was asking $120 and had a few inquiries. I would drop the price to $100 and only had one person thinking about it but he said he would have to talk to his wife. He was driving a new $30,000 pickup truck and the payments must have been at least a few hundred dollars per month. What ? Do you think he paid cash ? HaHa He even returned to check out the ladder a couple of hours later. I could tell that he really wanted it and needed it but his budget was too tight to afford it. Revealing, eh ?

One late buyer picked out several items and made a package deal. She told me of her recent accident and her $45,000 debt for medical care. She was retired military and to her surprise, her medical plan wouldn’t pick up the bill. She said that she didn’t have much money and every dollar was important.

The whole day went much like this and I got the distinct feeling that the consumer is finally tapped out. We have been reading about this in several recent articles. I have been looking for clues when this may happen and last Saturday was up close and personal.

I also got the feeling that garages and houses and storage containers all over are packed up with junk nobody wants as well as some good items that nobody needs.

I even put some art and antiques out to test the market. There was absolutely no interest.

I don’t want to jump to conclusions but I have been going to local garage sales for three years and last Saturday was grim. However, one garage sale does not make the season.

What I am trying to say is we may have reached the time wherein disposable income has been squeezed out of consumers’ pocketbooks. Only money left for necessities.

If this is an indication of where and how rapidly we are heading, I would advise all of us to be very careful in purchasing items for resale unless they are screaming bargains and they have a high demand.

The old axiom of avoiding catching a falling knife is in play now and it will put the damper on my buying items for resale.

I sure wouldn’t want to have a huge load of recently bought items just as the economy went over the cliff. Better to be cash heavy at this time and only pick up a little at a time. The velocity of sales of used items has slowed down.

I believe that the time has come a lot sooner that I had expected and I want us all to be aware that we may be on the verge of a dearth of buyers and a simultaneous time of a great increase of items for sale. Maybe best to watch and wait until we reach bottom.

This squeezing out of disposable income comes about as a result of wages going almost nowhere while true inflation continues upward. Disposable income is a very delicate thing; people will cease to buy things they want and only buy the things they need. It is the first stage of moving into survival mode. I have been watching for it and think I saw it in action last Saturday. Only time will tell if I am right.

With some $800 billion dollars of adjustable rate mortgages poised to reset higher in the coming months, the squeeze is on in a big way.

What does all this mean when we hit the bottom ? There may be many losing their homes and further depressing real estate prices. Like when there are few buyers and a lot of sellers, the prices have to fall until equilibrium is once again established. It is true in real estate, stocks and in used items.

Public reports of retail sales activity probably won‘t be broken down to reflect the shift from certain items to others like food, a necessity.

People are getting practical only because it is being forced upon them. To act otherwise is now destructive to their continued survival.

It is not just last Saturday’s garage sale that has made me more cautious. There are other signs like all the for sale signs in front yards. All the late cars for sale by people who want to get out from under the monthly payments. Food prices rising dramatically. And on and on.

A trend that I spotted and acted upon has been the high mileage diesel VW cars. I have three that I got for $200 to $300 each. I haven’t seen any offered since fuel prices rose the last time. High mileage cars have a future as long as people have to commute long distances to work. Especially as fuel prices continue to rise. Since the fuel savings can run in the hundreds of dollars per month, a worker needing to cut costs will be looking at these little gems.

In my manual transmission business I’m already checking into changing gear ratios for better mileage with the diesel VWs. If I can get over 60-65 MPG on the freeway, I may be able to sell these special transmissions. Small thing and probably not important to many of you who read this but you can at least see why I am thinking this way.

There will come a time when many items will be dirt cheap. Items need space to be stored in and even that costs money. I know people who have had rented storage containers who paid thousands of dollars over the years only to discover that the contents were worth nowhere near the storage costs. It would have been better had they abandoned the storage container with contents long ago. I have often wondered how many people would continue to pay for storage costs after a market crash. You see, personal storage companies are a profitable business in a good economy. However, in a depression, I wonder who would be able to afford to store unused items for many years. Or even want to.

Unlike the German hyperinflation of 1922-23, our dollar is tied to collateralized debt instruments and assets. Without the trickle down theory of profitable large corporations trickling down the profits to workers as in the past, the benefits to consumers’ wages will not provide relief this time. Unless the Fed does a helicopter drop to citizens, money will be tight as well as losing purchasing power. A double whammy.

And a massive increase in money supply would have to end up in the hands of everyone before it could free up a tight economy. Since people are already debt saturated, the money would have to come to them without further debt obligations. Will we see a runaway hyperinflation ? I would like to know how they could pull this off without decoupling debt from collateralization.

On a lighter note, my sons, my nephew and I went out on the test run of my boat. We were in the ocean for 5 hours and just enjoyed sitting off the shoreline and eating our lunch and talking. It was a beautiful day in contrast to all the time I spend trying to figure out how the future will turn out. And I thought for a bit that why should I worry; there is not much more I can do about it anyway. Just enjoy the present.

My curiosity has the best of me and I am somehow driven to seek answers to the possible future scenarios.

How can we have hyperinflation when there is so little cash around ?

How can we have a deflationary depression when the Fed can print out dollars by the buttload ?

How can middle class Americans continue with so much manufacturing going overseas, never to return ?

With the recent news that millions ( I think it was 40 million. Yikes ! )of the higher paid jobs stand to be send offshore, who is going to be left to buy anything but food ?

I don’t mean to scare you but I have changed my outlook recently toward preservation of cash in hand rather than freely wheeling and dealing. We are heading downward and I will focus on screaming deals that I can sell right away.

My sons and I don’t NEED anything except food and to pay the bills for the foreseeable future. Things of any size that we may WANT are out of the question. This is a time to watch and wait.

However if we NEED items for ourselves like a winter coat or a lawn mower or a Pyrex cooking bowl, garage sales can provide great savings from buying those items at stores.

If items at garage sales don’t get any buyer interest, Ebay may be a solution for now. I have been selling items for a long time there and the market exposure is huge. I will be selling art and collectable toys and unneeded items ASAP (there’s that acronym again). If items don’t sell there, they probably won’t sell anywhere.

In our present volatile economic situation, preparation for tough times ahead will be more important than ever. I have been buying food stocks when they are on sale. The other day I bought a load and the tape savings was larger than I paid. Over 50% off. My nephew taught me how to buy food at bargain prices several years ago. He amazed me and made me think of all the money I had ignorantly wasted in the past. With double coupons and sale items, he sometimes got items for nothing ! I haven’t been able to do this myself but am content with the savings I can find. So you see, there are sharper people out there than I am.

Don’t misunderstand; I’m not backing down from bartering and horse trading but merely adapting. Remember about Darwin and something about survival going to those who were adaptable to change ?

This morning I saw a 14’ x 70’ mobile home in the newspapers. It was free if someone would take it away. It may have been a wreck inside but if the exterior was decent, it could be moved onto acreage and fixed up and either used as a primary residence or rented out. Of course it depends on local zoning laws. I would be looking into it if I had acreage right now.

My son and I just got back from garage sailing today. An auction nearby had me jumping in my shoes and dashing out the door. However it was unclear when the viewing date was; today or next Saturday. I knew this before I arrived in hopes of getting the jump on the crowd. Undaunted, I knocked on the door and found out what the auction contained for next Saturday. I might go; not sure. But at least I made the effort to get out there and check things out. There was a garage sale sign by the road and we went there also and found several items and some really nice people. Young military families. Being an old Navy brat myself, I have a soft spot for these people. I must have talked to them for nearly an hour. They are very interested in learning how they can save money and make extra money and we may meet in the future. That is up to them.

We were on the way home when we saw another garage sale sign and went there. A single garage with tables full of items. We bought several items here also and have their phone number in case we decide to buy their large upright freezer. It would be $5. I already have two freezers to store the bulk buys and don’t really need a third. However, I could clean it up and sell it for about $100 if I wanted. Used freezers are hard to find in my area; I know, I was looking for one for several months last summer and ended up buying a new one. Oh well, at least I have their phone number.

Got some DVD movies for $1 each and a Playstation 2 game for $1. An REI backpack for $2. A pair of 4 way Pioneer speakers for $15 and a JVC 6 stacker CD player with remote for $2 and a Kenwood stereo receiver for $3. Got a couple of things as gifts for family too.

These are the normal types of items and prices I pay at garage sales. You can imagine what they would cost new. By the way, they are items that I may use myself rather than for resale. This is pretty much in keeping with what I said earlier; buy either screaming bargains that you know you can sell for a profit or items you need for yourself. Items that are for sale for $10 and can be resold for only $15 aren’t what I am looking for. And you shouldn’t either with the economy in the state it is now. But a ladder that was over $300 new that you can get for $10 has the potential for a sale at $100, a 10 bagger. I didn’t sell my 28’ ladder last Saturday but I know what it is worth and am in no hurry to give it away cheap.

These are some ongoing examples of what can be found out there. For every item I may buy, I probably look at 100 items. But the eye is a marvelous tool to scan items in no time at all.

Books hold potential but I am not well versed in their value. Some books can be bought for as little as a dime and can be worth many, many dollars. Someone wanting to get into this would need to get into it all the way. I have lucked upon some valuable old books but as of yet haven’t tried to sell them. I just buy ones that looks to have promise or is of interest to me. I can see how this specialty could become a regular profitable side business.

The same applies to vinyl records. Personally I love old jazz, classical and early rock and roll. I have hundreds of albums, many of which I paid as little as a nickel. Most I paid 50 cents to a dollar. When I was younger I bought them at retail but no more. I suspect that vinyl records will rise in price in the future but have nothing to back that up but a gut feeling. Both the cover and the record have to be in nice condition; otherwise they are only good for skeet shooting.

Best wishes,

agnut

P.S. I also wrote some details of the financial workings of my transmission shop but haven’t posted them. I don’t know if anyone would be interested in seeing how thinking goes on inside my head. It’s actually quite simple (like me).

One prediction I read was that there will be container ships stacked with used goods for resale overseas.

All that junk we bought on credit and can't afford? 'They'll' be coming to take it back.

(seriously, that's a business for the future. people will make huge money doing that.)

__________________
"Math is hard"

I think what agnut is seeing on his local level is something others of us have been seeing in our own areas for several months now, i.e. what amounts to a localized liquidity crunch for second hand consumer goods. But breaking it all down into the category of "buying only the necessities" gives me pause to wonder what kind of impact this will have on collectibles, stocks, bonds, and gold or silver. At some point, this "cash crunch" is bound to affect all of these too. Gold and silver in particular are hovering near their 200 day moving averages, and even the shorter-term moving averages appear to be close to convergence with the actual spot price of the PMs. This "could" be a good buy signal, but on the other hand could be a major turning point to the downside. Time will tell, but right now is a good time to step back and watch things VERY closely, and as agnut suggests, watch that cash.

Here is a good article which lays out the pros and cons of owning (un)real estate. Read all three sections to get a complete picture. I copied it for future reference.

Something to think about regarding what is likely the largest bartering and horse trading in the average citizens‘ lives.

US Housing Crash Continues
It's A Terrible Time To Buy

http://patrick.net/housing/crash.html

A house ain’t a home if it owns you. And you can quote me on that !

Best wishes,

agnut

.........."It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it"...........

Now there is a classic statement about the financial industry if I ever saw one !

And another one that fits well with this thread:

.........."You don't get rich spending a dollar to save 30 cents!"........

Silver Monkey, lots of meaty stuff there in posts 181, 2, 3, 5, and 6. I will try to respond as best I can.

Sounds like your friend who bought the $55,000 BMW with house profits went from one good deal to progressively worse deals and has become wrapped in a spider web of his own doing.

It is normal to at first envy others around you “living the American dream”. But on closer inspection of how they are paying for that should only result in pity for what is to come of them as time passes. You are smart to see behind the curtain (like my Wizard of Oz avatar).

I have been fortunate to have had fancy toys in the past. I know now that they don’t make me happy. In fact, many times they made me downright miserable. Even that Ferrari I had in the late 1970s ended up being a big headache in the end. Sure it was a lot of fun to drive in the beginning but when a wrist pin bushing went out, it was tied up at the dealership for months in a battle to wrest it away from me cheaply. I sold it privately at a great loss. Much of my money invested went to “money heaven” as they say.

You asked about any of my deals that have gone bad and there is one big one. Another deal that went bad was a marriage that ended in a most contentious divorce. It didn’t have to be so but my ex wouldn’t listen to me or my attorney. In the end we both lost a great deal and as usually happens, the attorneys were the only winners. I had to start over in life, a bit older and wiser.

The experience of that has left me with little desire to date or establish a relationship because they almost always lead to their wanting to get married. I am not bitter regarding women but feel that I can’t afford another similar episode. So I intend to remain a bachelor until I die or lose my mind. Life is good now and I am free to do what I want with my time and decisions. Freedom always has a price and to enjoy it, we must be willing to pay that price.

As for deals I have made in the past several years, I rarely lose out. I’m not bragging by any means but I do follow rules which discard potential bad deals.

A while back I bought 35 late VW manual transmission cores for about $12,000 and haven’t made a dime on them since. I knew it would be a long term investment when I bought them. I still see the potential and have had to educate myself about their demand and price potential, whether to sell their parts or to recondition them or to fully rebuild them. In fact, I intend to “shotgun” and do all three. I have done this in the past and it worked out well. Having experience to draw upon makes my ventures easier. Also as I expect the economy to get slower and tighter, I expect transmission shops to more tend to want to rebuild themselves and only buy the parts needed. This has been a terrifically profitable sideline and if I can offer a complete range of product, I will fare well even though times get tough.

So far my transmission shop has been all preparation and no income. It requires a great investment in both time and money until becoming profitable. The greatest risk in such a business is being underfunded. It takes time to establish buyers and if you don’t have the savings set aside to hold out, you may well go under. The potential in my particular specialty is tremendous. I have been there before and know. I could be doing something else like looking for defunct companies’ inventories or buying whole estates but I have chosen my path and must not look back. No distractions from my original goal. Focus is important. And belief in your abilities.

This transmission shop venture could be a bust. The economy could crash and there could be slow sales for a long time. I can’t control this external event but may be able to turn it to my advantage after a crash since every dollar will become more important to my customers. I am set up to undercut all competition if need be and I will take their customers away from them in such a scenario.

Sure I take risks, but they are calculated risks. A common characteristic of wealthy people is that they look at the worst case scenario when getting into a business deal. What is the worst that can happen ? Two books come to mind, “The Millionaire Next Door” and “The Millionaire Mind”. Some good ideas there.

In your post #185 you stated what types of cash you would like to have on hand. Might I suggest you also have some bricks of pennies and nickels ? You are probably aware that they have more value in their metal content than their face value. Dimes, quarters and half dollars probably never will. Now the dollar might take a hit or it could become harder to get in the future but we all need to keep enough on hand for not only emergencies but also for deals out there.

Also sounds like you have a love for mountain bikes. Many years ago I had a Peugeot P10 and still think of it from time to time. What a great bike. My sons and I have three bikes but don’t use them much right now. They are for our pleasure as well if we need them someday.

In your post #186, you have the right idea. Just Do It.Some items for your own pleasure like your guitar can be traded for with items you already got earlier on the cheap. There is an old comedy called “The Tender Trap” that was about a country farmer who traded for almost everything he had. An IRS agent played by Tony Randall came by and got tangled up in the paperwork accounting as well as getting tangled up with the farmer’s daughter played by Debbie Reynolds. If you can find it, it is well worth viewing.




Best wishes,

Agnut

P.S. I heartily recommend everybody to start collecting some humor. It could be the Far Side cartoon books of which I have almost everything Gary Larson has published. I also have the Bloom County group and Calvin and Hobbes group. There are many humor books to fit all tastes. Even some dark humor like Gahan Wilson. Humor is still the best medicine and is uplifting to the spirit. Try Googling “jokes” and you will be lost for hours.

Also I collect quotes from the ages. I have thousands and draw upon their wisdom all the time. You see, you don’t have to be highly intelligent but only need to be open to others’ ideas. You can find loads of these quotes for free on the internet or even buy books like Barrett’s Familiar Quotations or the three volume set of The Forbes Scrapbook Of Thoughts On The Business Of Life. From time to time I read portions of them for inspiration and guidance. School never ends.

By the way, I don’t buy these books new. Oh no, no, no. As I have said before, paying retail is for the unimaginative. Abebooks.com and Ebay both have some great prices at a fraction of their new price. I have bought several books in a group from sellers on Ebay for 10 to 20% of their new price. And many books are only $1 plus shipping on Abebooks.

Hi RoosterHunter and welcome to the GIM website. Your post made me laugh at myself. Even to this day I have to fool myself by stashing away bundles of dollars and bricks of pennies and nickels. Since they are less easy to spend than paper dollars, I tend to keep them around for emergencies only.

Even with my silver bullion saving, I diversify with sterling silver and 90% silver coins.

We have to do what we can to protect ourselves from ourselves. HaHa

Best wishes,

Agnut

RoosterHunter: What type of safe do you have at home? I've been looking for a good safe. Thanks.

Hi Shadowhaven and welcome here. GIM has been my home base for years. A big old family with a rowdy bunch of thinkers who don’t take any prisoners. Truth is sought here and falsehoods get the heave ho in short order.

As a group of patriots we can make a big difference to those around us. After all, in a collapse some knowledgeable souls will have to be available to put the pieces back together.

This bartering and horse trading thread is but one of the multitude of contributions our many members offer. I can’t believe all I have learned in the last few years.

I worked 8-5 jobs for many years when I was young. Somewhere in my early 30s I began to work for myself and learned that I liked being self employed. I probably worked longer hours but when working for myself I didn’t seem to mind. It is not for everybody but at least we all can learn to be sharp barterers and horse traders. Where that leads to is up to the individual.

Yeah, we are taking life by the horns and riding it like we stole it. I like that.

Best wishes,

agnut

Hi Krugerrand. I also raid the local thrift stores when I can. I have to wait a while for them to restock the items I am looking for. I missed a load of records a while back because someone beat me to the punch. On Mondays and Fridays they are 5 cents each. And at a garage sale the other day I asked if they had any records or video games. They said someone had just been there and bought them all. So you never know. Can’t get all the deals. At least I know they are in demand and I suspect some others recognize their value for the future.

Unlike rare coins which are usually in protective holders, vinyl records easily get scratched up and their cases can get torn and abraded. Pristine copies are getting hard to find. And the future bodes well for those with the foresight to know this. Books have similar characteristics if you decide to get into them as a specialty.

That’s funny that your cousin would show off his bargain from the thrift store. Maybe he has made the transition from form to function and will have all kinds of bargain hunting opportunities opening up now. An opportunity for you to introduce him to the wonderful world of bartering and horse trading before he falls back into old habits. You may be surprised how little a nudge it takes to change a life sometimes.

When we get over the attitude that everything we have to buy as new, we free ourselves from the shackles of limiting our possibilities. I see the TV ads for new furniture and wonder what kind of people are still buying new dining room sets for thousands of dollars. Probably the same ones that are buying the new cars. And the same ones who are hopelessly in debt. Like our government deficit ( sounds much like defeces; probably another Fraudian slip. Anyway, they are both something to NOT step in), those with onerous personal debt are hopelessly trapped. I don’t have the time to try and save them. It is best left up to the courts and bankruptcy counselors.

Well, the piper must be paid someday. Don’t these people understand that the “No payments due until 2010” means that interest will be accruing throughout that time period ? And that interest will be getting interest ? Interest on interest, how cute.

You never know what will result when you reach out to another. Just because you got thorns from one try doesn’t mean that you won’t get a blooming field from another. Two of my best friendships have come about as a result of making business deals with others. Can’t make friends sitting in a recliner watching the boob tube. Use the TV to your advantage; don’t watch it as millions do but get out there in the real world and make physical human contacts. That’s Real Entertainment at its best.

Best wishes,

Agnut

Thanks for your post on the garage sales, agnut. Our next door neighbor recently had a garage sale, and when I went over to have a look at what she had to offer, I took a few minutes to talk with her. Business had been very slow.... not many visitors, and few of those that did bought anything. I didn't see much worth buying so this may have been partly a function of what she had for sale, but perhaps it's more of the trend you're seeing.

While this isn't really a bartering story, it does relate to getting the most out of what we have, and fixing up old vehicles: today my cousin (a different one) and I worked on a 1974 Honda road motorcycle (can't recall the model). My uncle passed it along to my cousin, after the bike had sat in his garage for 20 years or so. The last time it was even registered was 1990. We took apart and cleaned the carbs, replaced the plugs and fuel lines, changed the oil, and jumped it off a spare battery until he can buy a proper battery for it, and she fired right up! It was quite a thrill to see an old relic jump to life after sitting in a garage for so long, never being run. Couldn't take it out for a spin as it still needs a battery, but it seems to operate in gear just fine for the few feet the jumper cables would reach. It was a good experience for me to see an old bike that I'm sure many would figure to toss be put back to use, and I learned a fair bit about working on motorcycles at the same time. My cousin says he's going to ride it all over the place now: to the store, out to his dad's house 45 mins away, etc. etc. Not bad for free and $10 worth of parts so far (still needs new air cleaners and possibly rebuild kit for the carbs, and the battery, so maybe $50-75 more? Anyway, just thought I'd share.